Certifications or College??

[Newlifer]

Hello all,

What is your opinion? Is it better to get a Degree in an area of study(example Networking) or to get Certifications? I am looking for reasons why also.
Looking forward to your responses.
Newlifer

[Valdin]

If I had to rank them it would be 1)Degree 2)Certification. Why? A degree will teach you the concepts of the technology that will be applicable to a wide variety of situations. A certification will teach you the specifics of a certain product and/or technology related to a product so that you can employ your skill in that specific area.

I don't think you would do bad to just get certifications, but I believe that you would find it much more difficult to complete the certifications without a degree or some experience related to it. Degrees also, theoretically, give you an advantage in the work place in regards to promotion and advancement.

There is alway the exception to the rule but I wouldn't place my future on being the exception. (Therefore, I almost certainly never will be!)

Hope this helps!

[Eccentric]

Cerifications!!!! Degrees may help you learn it easier, but lets say you went to college but didn't finish, but you're an average computer user. Cisco offers a million classes that will teach what you need to know from scratch. I used to work for an ISP, and I know from experience, that certifications is all that matters. If you're an MCSE, or have any of a number of Cisco Certifications, (CNA, CCIE, etc.) you're a hot ticket. Most university classes don't cover enough to use on the job. However, I took the Cisco Introduction to Computer Networks Class, which is a preparation for the CNA certifications, and after completion I felt like an expert. My point is, if you go for a networking position and have any of the above certifications, you don't even have to put you college education on your resume! That's a fact!

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Eccentric
"Go Linux"

[jred]

I only wish I had time to go back to get my degree. In reality, both are necessary. The advantage of a degree is that it offers you a background in the technology. When you opt for the straight certifications, there are a lot of real world problems you will run into that "everyone" knows the answer to, that you might not have ever heard of. Not only that, but it'll take you 4-6 years to build up the experience that hiring managers want to replace the degree.

[rklym]

Let me tell you, certifications can pay well, but you'll reach a salary cap at some point in time. I guess if you want to be a network technician the rest of your life, then there's no need to get a degree. But if you plan on getting into some sort of MIS position (where the real money is), you'll never get there without a degree.

I'm doing both, I'm 2 exams away from MCSE and have about a year and a half of college yet before I get my MIS degree. I'm making around $40k right now with those certs without much experience. I know people that have quadrupled their salary just by getting their degree -- gone from $50k up to $200k. It's really insane.

My recommendation to you would be go to school and try to get in with the LAN administrator to get some good experience in. In the meantime, crack an NT server book open and go for a cert. You always have summers off to get your certs in. Anyway, good luck!

Ryan
MCP

[rklym]

Let me tell you, certifications can pay well, but you'll reach a salary cap at some point in time. I guess if you want to be a network technician the rest of your life, then there's no need to get a degree. But if you plan on getting into some sort of MIS position (where the real money is), you'll never get there without a degree.

I'm doing both, I'm 2 exams away from MCSE and have about a year and a half of college yet before I get my MIS degree. I'm making around $40k right now with those certs without much experience. I know people that have quadrupled their salary just by getting their degree -- gone from $50k up to $200k. It's really insane.

My recommendation to you would be go to school and try to get in with the LAN administrator to get some good experience in. In the meantime, crack an NT server book open and go for a cert. You always have summers off to get your certs in. Anyway, good luck!

Ryan
MCP

[Eccentric]

Oh, of course finish school. It can't hurt you. All I'm stating is that if you want an opportunity in the networking field then degrees are not mandatory. They help, especially if you plan on doing something different eventually. But you can make a great income on just certifications. My point is this. If you want a networking position, and you have to choose one or the other, which would be more beneficial? The certifications! If you just have a degree, you cannot step right in a do the job. However, with the certifications, you could. They're may be learning gaps from not getting the degree. But Universities are not specific enough to allow you to step right into a position.

Now before everyone jumps on me let me say this. Everyone is absolutely right. Both are necessary and with both you make yourself even more marketable. However, I interpreted the question as which is better for the example: Networking. So I guess I'm thinking one or the other. In that case "just" a degree will not make you as attractive as Certifications.

[Newlifer]

Hello all,

Thank you again so MUCH for all the wonderful answers! Let me tell you a bit about myself. I am currently enrolled at Ivy Tech going for a Degree in Computer Networking. The problem I am having is that the work force where I live, which is Indiana, want some sort of certification. Now onto my next question, being you have been so helpful. What Certification is good to start with? I am thinking of CNA or CNE, then going for MCSE+I. What do you think. My purpose is to get involved in the Networking field. Waiting to hear from you!
Thanks again for your Help!
Newlifer

[Eccentric]

Cisco has a certification hierarchy. You should start with the CNA, then move your way up. The MCSE certification is also an option, however, that would limit your networking opportunites, if not coupled with the Cisco certs. Cisco is "it" when it comes to internet router hardware, which is OS independent. Therefore with Cisco certifications you are a lot more marketable. Also during the Cisco courses you'll learn how to set up all protocols, on most OS's, and you'll be spared the unnecessary Windows implementations of Internet standards, (such as DNS -> WINS), which are sparsely used anyway.

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Eccentric
"Content Unix User"

[Newlifer]

Hello Again,

Well Here are my plans as of today,LOL who knows what tomorrow may bring. Anyway, I am going to try and meet with some people at a company called IKON here in Fort Wayne. They offer Novell and Microsoft Certs. I am not sure if they offer Cisco?? I think I need to start with CCNA (the Cisco Cert) but am not sure, This whole area Confuses me. I am going to look into CNA (Novell) for my first cert. On a possitive note, I was informed yesterday that I made the Dean's List at Ivy Tech. For my Networking Degree! WHOO! So Please If anyone Has some Input On the Certs. Please Add I am checking daily!!! Or feel free to e mail me at Newlifer01@aol.com. Thats the Number zero, one. Thanks all!

[Eccentric]

CCNA for Cisco, deals more so with Cisco products, such as Internet Router, Switches, Bridges, etc. So if that's what tickles your fancy go with the CCNA. Novell is not as well know for that but more so the actual LANs. Make a decision as to whether you want to deal with T1's, routers, WAN's, etc. or LAN's.

[gmorris]

I agree with everyone. But it also depends on your age. If your young Do both. Stay in school until you have both a Computer Science Degree (BA) and get certs along the way. If you are older say over 35. Get Certs first and work on degree later. This will get you in the industry making money faster. One thing you need to understand. It really matters where you go to school for your CS degree. It does not matter how you get certified. No one cares how much money you spent or what school you atteneded for your certifications. Therefore if you are disciplined enough to study everyday without being distracted, get the books, CBTs etc. and study on your own, youll save money and get it done faster, and retain more by going at your own pace. There are simulator software packages you can by that allow you to do networking tasks on your home PC as though you had a network when you really only using one PC.

[Cyprus]

Certifications, I know dozens of people who went to College for computer related classes. And they said it taught them almost nothing. Its all very old stuff, Certifications are usually more recent and relevent (kind of). I know this company that pays like a minimum of $30 an hour, and most of the people there have never been to college. They got the jobs by prior experience and having certifications.

[dtirado]

I have mixed feelings about this issue. my husband and I got our MIS degree last year in June 1998. We have received promotions at our current jobs but are having a hell of a time finding a new job that pays over 35k. So we are now in the process of getting the MCSE, we have taken two courses and are preparing for exams. it seems that both degree and certs are important and doing both is better. Many companies paying higher salaries want the certs and for the higher positions they want degrees too. I think MIS and computers in general are so broad that employers want to see that you have a specialty in something. I also agree with the person that said if you are young do both. it can open many opportunities for the future. even though my college degree has not put me where i want to be i do not regret it for a minute, my salary still went up after i got it and i got more respect, freedom, and responsibility at my job. Now i am looking forward to finishing the mcse and improving even more. I think the best certs are the CNA & MCSE... Besides, computers are always changing and we have to be willing to continue educating ourselves so we can keep up.

[wfoster]

Im interested in getting a networking certification.. im currently a-plus certifiied. which certification is the best one to get? CNA or MCSE, and also what are your opinions on taking some of the cisco certification courses? I currently have an opportunity to do that also.. any good advice would be greatlly appriciated before I sink 6k into cert courses

[Newlifer]

WFoster I totally Agree with you!!!! As Far as I have been told Cisco CERTS are The ones to get!!! I am currently enrolled For a Networking degree From IVY TECH. Great School and Wonderful staff!!! I am trying to get Info on CNA and MCSE. I have posted this, spoken to people, and Called a company called IKON for training help with My certs. I am looking at starting my CNA classes maybe march or June. My plans, at least for today (LOL), are to do BOTH. Stay and get my degree and also at the same time Get the Certs that will help market me. I think the first CISCO CERT is CCNA. At least from there website. But what I have found out is that there really is no TRACK for Certs. I guess you have to wing it! LOL. But The first choice for me is CNA Then I will move on to the others.

Newlifer

[wfoster]

Newlifer,

I live in the Raliegh-Durham area of NC, and Cisco systems is about 5 mins from my home.. Im thinking about taking courses with them first also... im just trying to get info from some the the guys on here who have done the cert thing. you seem to be headed down the right path.. im trying to get there also.. good luck.. im sure either way, in a few years you'll be in the big bucks ..:-)

[Eccentric]

Hey guys, I used to work for an ISP, and have taken 2 separate Cisco certification classes.

Intro to Cisco Networks, which is a preparation class for the CCNA exam.

and Cisco Networking Design, which is the
preparation class for the CCDP exam, Which is one of the top levels. I never got the opportunity to take either on of the exams, because I no longer work for the ISP, so they won't pay for it, plus I don't know if that's what I want to do anymore. Anyway, my point is, I know all about the CCNA exam, and alot about the CCDP exam. I also have all of the documentation from both classes. So if any of you have any questions concerning the Cisco certs, what they teach, and what to expect on the exam, post it, or email me, and I'll help you all out! http://www.hardwarecentral.com/discussion/smile.gif

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C:\WINDOWS\RUN C:\WINDOWS\CRASH C:\ME\FDISK /usr/src/linux

[d.trace]

Hi all,
I have the same "problem"... I paused the Electronic Engineering (I was at the 2° year of 5) for 7 mounth, last spring I attended a course "Client-Server Architecture Expert" at near national Institute of Professional Formations, now I have a stage at ISP in Italy... I live very much networking topics, but my doubt is: to continue an hard study course like Engineering (I'm 26 and I've done few exam of 1° year course) or continue on this way, taking cert on MCSE or CISCO? I know that degree make more respectable, freedom, and promotion facilities... but with only the cert?? I probably will have a real work opportunity at this ISP.
Help me!
thanks

dTrace

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[geekd]

Certification, Degree, whatever. They will help you GET a job, but the only thing that will help you KEEP a job is the actual know-how.

At my last job, (who I keep close with and do side jobs for still) we hired several people with certs from Coleman College and a few with A+ certs in various things.

NONE OF THEM KNEW JACK S**T. They got canned in a few weeks. The guy who keeps the office functioning and the servers running smoothly is a 19 year old kid who KNOWS HIS STUFF. He's just out of high school. No formal computer education at all.

I guess what I'm saying is that I am skeptical that any class can teach you the things you really need to know. You can only learn the ins and outs by DOING. So go to class, get your Cert or Degree, but get some real hands on experience and know how, too.

-geekd

[Newlifer]

geekd,

I totally AGREE with you! 100%! Hands on experience is a MUST! But, That is my problem. I have tried to get a position in Networking. The companies that I have applied for AGREE I have the knowledge, but lack the experience. LOL. Anyway, I think it is GREAT about the 19 year old that you speak about. But, from what I have seen in my area, He/she must have known someone in the company. also, the 19 year old has a GREAT START on an EXCELLENT carrer!!! Bravo to that PERSON for being so BRAVE!! anyway, as of now I am a PC TECH. I can see no Option then to continue on the road I am going, That is School and Certs. I do thank you for your Input. and tell that 19 year old WAY TO GO for me.
Peace,
Newlifer http://www.hardwarecentral.com/discussion/smile.gif

[fendel]

I'm just a technical writer, so I don't really count... http://www.hardwarecentral.com/discussion/smile.gif But IMHO there are other options that nobody's talking about.

I went to a good liberal arts college, majored in English--which, of course, might be a little tough to "sell" for a networking job. But for tech writing it sufficed. More importantly, and I know this is a cliche, I became more well-rounded and "learned how to learn." I wouldn't trade that for anything.

Please don't take offense, but: I'd rather spend 4 years growing as a person and gaining a broad, rigorous education than spend the time learning stuff that may be obsolete before I graduate.

In terms of convincing employers... I had to do a lot of fast talking. I'm aiming to get A+ certification later this year just to prove to the skeptics that even though I'm a writer, I'm also a competent geek.

Obviously you have to prove yourself somehow when dealing with prospective employers--and you may be right that either a technical degree or certification is necessary. I would just consider the other possibilities as well.

Is anyone else out there working from a non-techie background?

A squeaky little voice piping up for the liberal arts...
fendel

[This message has been edited by fendel (edited 03-09-99).]

[Eccentric]

I think alot of you are missing the point. Don't get me wrong, everyone has valid points. Maybe I interpreted the question wrong. I'm thinking it's more along the lines of, "if you have to choose between certs and a degree, which would be more beneficial." What alot of people fail to realize is this. If you get a degree, and go into networking, guess what? Sooner or later, you're going to be sent to get certs. They don't care about where you graduated with what GPA. They want to know if you know what you're doing. If you were running a business, and needed T1 connections, your routers organized and cofigured, or just network maintanence (traffic reduction, reduced collisions, error problems) who are you going to hire to take care of this? Better yet who do you interview first? The guy with all the certs, or the guy with the degree (with most likely no hands on experience, because no one has paid for him to get certs anyway). I don't know about you but, the majority of ISP's, and Telco's I've worked for want certs. I'm not saying that just because you have the certs mean your a guru, or that you know your stuff. But the chances are greater that you know enough to do the job, unlike what you get from a degree. I can vouch for Cisco classes. If you take the class, then you know your stuff. Those classes usually have labs where you do everything from, setting up routers and switches to designing networks. If you get through that without knowing your stuff, something ain't right.

To sum this up. If time is not an issue, go ahead get both. But if you want to start immediately, nothing beats certs. BTW, I also don't agree with the salary cap thing for certs. Think about it like this. If you have a cert you're in demand. If you take a measly salaried job you're out of your mind. Contracting is where the money is. Become well known, and believe me, they will call when their network is dead in the water.

[This message has been edited by Eccentric (edited 03-09-99).]

[beatle]

Newlifer
Saw your query & meant to get back to it - damn it's been a month already? Anyway it seems obvious to me that getting certifications is the shorter route to getting better paying work and you could set up a plan whereby you acquire certifications at a steady pace but plan for starting college after about two years and set yourself up a plan to acquire the certifications you'll need while continuing to work and going to school on a part-time schedule. What you're looking at then is a 8+ year plan for getting through the acquisition of fundamental and documentable lifetime qualifications. Sounds like a lot if ~20, but it can pay off. Now I'll add the part I hope you can take to heart. Ok, if you're on this plan and getting your certs that allow you increasing presence in your field, and you're going to school, take all the computer/networking classes you can but major in something else! Get a damn history degree or a psychology degree and be able to think and talk about something else w/some authority OR get an avionics degree or a medical technology degree and be a uniquely documented individual in that area.
Right now the certs rule, because demand has outstripped supply. According to my friends who occupy that sphere, degrees are not a question (or not a qualifying question) when interviewing for an MIS/IT (or whatever the latest acronym is) job - just what do you know & how long have you known (used) it?.
Anyway, hope it helps.

[Newlifer]

Beatle, BIG HELP! http://www.hardwarecentral.com/discussion/smile.gif Thanks Much!
Newlifer http://www.hardwarecentral.com/discussion/smile.gif

[Zakar]

In general, a degree will take you much further as you get older.

[fune]

Degree's are definitely better than Cert if
you go well at college/uni.
I got 2 friends working at intel, 1 at
Microsoft and another doing his internship
at IBM. (and these are first jobs)
However it is immediately obvious that most
co's desire Cert, however one Cert friend
tells me, Cert's gets you noticed but it's
the experience which is most important.
I'm sure most ppl work before they get their
certificaton??
So how does a person get an entry level
position?
Certainly there are perhaps 20%-30% of jobs
looking specifically for grads, and the cert jobs are usually not entry-level.
so it is not surprising that I'm seen more ppl who get certified as grads.
of course I got one friend who dropped out of
uni many years ago to pursue computer sales
and worked his way up to MSCE+I
but the bottom line is degrees help you get
in, certs help you get noticed, but degrees
help you get promoted with that 5 years of
experience
but I just want to say for humour that one friend has none except 10 years of experience and high-flying with that.


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[Odin[SC]]

College Degree is the way to go. I left school 11 years ago, first job in R&D and now for 8 years in heavy manufacturing(steel). I have taken all the MS, and Digital courses and I have to say that the foundation to understanding how all technology works is understanding its smallest parts. And there a not very many small parts out there. Certificates are fine once you land a job, but I look for employees that have 'other' experience. It's fine if you are a MS Systems engineer, but I want people that can grasp whole systems. People that have had summer jobs building houses for instance, are the ones that understand what holds the walls up and what a 2x4 is, and why you tile around the foundation to keep rain and groundwater from backing up into the basement! This type of experience, along with an understanding of the basics of technology allow employees put systems into place that work and keep working.

A Windows NT 4.0 certificate is great, but Windows has essentially not changed since LanManager! If you understand the atom, you can better understand how the molecule works.

[Dirvish]

Just to add my two cents to the already overflowing pot. Everyone has given good advice with good reasoning behind it. Right now I am in school to be a CET and I keep hearing the same thing from every employer....."do you have certification?"
I agree that a degree will help you keep a job once you get it but what about getting that job to begin with? CERTs! I have all kinds of experience in everything but computers and its worth nothing no matter where I go. BTW in terms of a track for certifications? I just think that getting the cheapest ones first are the way to go, e.g.: I'm going for my A+ next month, then CNA, after that I will think about whether to go for CNE, MCSE or whatever. Cisco may be the way to go but it is also the most expensive. I think I'll wait 'til someone else is footing the bill for that one.

[pbssbp]

I'm the IS Manager for a small (60 computer) company in Virginia. Most of the people I work with just assume I have a degree and I don't bother to fill them in on the truth. Most of them also assume I have certification (in the process, but I don't have it yet). They're willing to make these assumptions because I know what I'm doing.

I know what I'm doing because:

a) I read voraciously. This means I read manuals cover to cover, plus trade mags, etc.

b) I've had college courses that have been a critical base to me understanding the material I cover in "a"

c) After I read it, I do it.


My take on the hiring process is that all people care about is that you know what you're doing. They want the certs and degrees because they're "proof" that you know what you're doing. I think most employers believe that certs are better "proof" than degrees for hands-on networking and LAN administration. That said, I think most people don't have a good shot at the certs unless they've learned excellent study techniques, which usually come from taking college courses.

If you're the exception (like me) then by all means take the certs and get a job or just get a job based on experience. Otherwise you should get school first to help prepare you for the tough road ahead.

Paul

[geekd]

Dirvish said :
"I agree that a degree will help you keep a job once you get it but what about getting that job to begin with? "

One thing no one has mentioned "People Skills"

I have gotten all my jobs because I can talk a guy into hiring me. I talk a good line a bull****. Then, once I'm hired, I back it up. If I can't do something, I learn how to on my own time, so I am ready to do it at work. This may seem like dedication, but I actually enjoy learning computer "stuff", so it works out.

My problem w/ Certs AND college is that you can take all the classes you want, but if you don't really ENJOY working with computers, if it's not your hobby and your recreation as well as what (you plan to) pays the bills, then just find something else. Classes will only teach you so much. Trial and error and "get it done by tommarow!" will teach you WAY more.

Just my 2 cents... (wait, I already put my 2 cents in.. ok 4 cents now...)

-dave

[AXEMAN]

I agree with one of the dudes above: If you're older (30-35), you're better off with Certifications. Degrees are cool but I think some of these guys are on crack!! You're not going to be making 200K/Year anytime soon because you have a degree. I know this because I work with technical recruiters everyday single day in the hottest place to be, the new Silicone Valley: Irvine, CA
The only way you're going to be making that kind of cash is by having a degree in business not computers! If anything, people with computer degrees make a lot less around here, $30-35K, and they don't know what the hell to do if you put them in a server room or a data center with cables up the ***. It's true they learn theory (old technology)...but a corporation needs a lot more than that to run everyday. Basically I'd say, get the certifications while you can and start making good cash, learn as much as you can on the job (it is THE most important thing..HANDS-ON!!), and if you want
to get a degree to impress your parents, neighbors, girlfriend(s), do it part-time on the weekend!
Keep on rocking!!

--Michael
MCSE, CCNA, CCA